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Should I be concerned about dealers valve adjustment?

20 posts from 9 voices
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  1. carryallguns87
    #

    I dropped bike for valve adjustment and throttle body synch on Monday morning and asked for valve adjustment to minimum spec. and T.B. synch. Went to pick-up on Wed. and was told the valves were loose but in "spec". so they didn't adjust! I explained that although they were in spec. I asked for, and paid to have them adjusted as requested. (all the "ticking" was very annoying and the bike was bought used, and never serviced by original owner with 4k) At my insistance, they agreed to do it over and adjust as requested on Thursday. When I picked it up on Friday, the tech said he adjusted it to "snug" .040 and .060 I believe. (min spec.) Started it and took off for home. Sounded smooth and quiet,till I came to the first stop-light. It stumbled and killed! WTF!!! Pulled over and called dealer to tell them I was turning around and coming back, and that I was losing confidence in "Barneys Honda barn" at this point. A quick look and the problem was discovered...They forgot to reconnect the vacume lines to the top of the throttle body when the tech synched the T.Body. They charged me 4hrs shop time at $75/hr ($318w/tax) Seems to run smoother and very quiet now. Should I be concerned about the valves being to tight? or am I just paranoid now? If they are abit too tight, what should I be listening/looking for? Snowing today, but I'll be putting on a few more miles this season before I change the oil/filter and winterizing. Don't wanna worry about it all winter. What do you think?

  2. cbdklowal
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    You got charged too much shop time. The TB sync should be like a half hour labor and the valve adjust is two hours labor. That said, it's a good shop rate on paper, but not if they don't know what they're doing, which appears to be the case.

    You should hear a little bit of clicking from the valves, that's normal. If they did put it in spec even on the tight end, I wouldn't worry about it.

    I am with you on the "I wanted them adjusted not just checked" thing, my first service had me bent over for the labor on the inspection, but they were "in spec" - by mid winter they were obnoxiously noisy. At the 4k I told them I didn't care whether they were in spec, I want them all loosened and reset if I am paying 2 hours labor most of it just digging up the valves and burying them again - and they have been fine since, at 13k now.

    As for the TB sync, you should invest about $100 on a balance tool and do them yourself. You can pretty much take care of it at the curb. Check out my write up New Rider

  3. MorkKW
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    Regarding the disconnected vacuum lines, that sounds like yet another example of a dealer "partially" completing a job. : /

    Ideally, .004" for the intake valves and .006" for the exhaust valves are the ideal settings you want. If....again, "IF" in fact those are indeed the settings your dealer used, it's pretty much a matter-of-fact you will not hear any abnormal valve noise and it's also quite unlikely your bike will need them adjusted a 2nd time before adding another ~20k miles.

    Stay safe.
    Morg

  4. carryallguns87
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    I had "regular 10W40" oil in it earlier this summer and the valves were really noisy, especially on hot days, so I tried 10W40 MC Amsoil. WOW! It really quieted them down with that stuff. I cant hear ANY valve noise now with them adjusted down and the Amsoil still in it. Considering going back to regular oil just to see what they sound like now. (not to mention the cost difference) Whatcha running for lube?

  5. cbdklowal
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    I run Mobil1 4t Synthetic 10w40. With the way I muck up a case of the fully synthetic stuff, I don't want to run any sort of dinosaur oil. Plus, going from the dinosaur oil to the Mobil1 really quieted down the gearbox whine. at $60 per change, it's a little expensive, but everything about motorcycling is a little expensive.

  6. carryallguns87
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    I run the Mobile 1 in my HHR. Change the filter every 3k (drop in cartridge with no oil loss) and change oil at 9-10k. Been known to use the "old" oil in mowers and my beater jeep in the winter for easier starting.

  7. Tuttle3
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    I dropped bike for valve adjustment and throttle body synch...

    The context of "minimum spec" could mean two different definitions. Did you specifically state your own definition by way of the actual number? I'm not accusing, but I suspect communication might have been broke down here by observation of your stated dimensional numbers. Did you state your concern of the valve noise? Even if you specifically state to set them to minimum deminsion of .004", there are plenty of variables involved that come into play here.

    1. Technicians have their own viewpoint on what's the best dimensions to set valves. A customer may have their own request. But if something goes wrong due to an adjustment on the tight side of the tolerances, guess who's at fault? If you really believe it's going to be the customer's, then I suggest to never start your own business.

    2. In my line of work, I buy new thickness gauges every few years and discard the old ones. Over time and regular use, they tend to wear out of tolerances. Then, I have my new ones checked for calibration. Thickness gauges, name brand even, have been known to be out of spec from the get-go.

    As far as the vacuum line goes, I've never run across a shop that operates 100% perfect every time, every day, 365 days a week.

    Quote:
    They charged me 4hrs shop time at $75/hr ($318w/tax)
    Not knowing if you're just providing general information or asking input, I'm going for the latter...

    Was this quoted to you before work was performed? If so, did you agree to this quote? If you didn't sign or give a verbal release, then the shop shouldn't have performed the work. I'd get estimates or quotes in writing in the future. The other option is to find another shop. Otherwise, it's "buyer beware". It isn't the shop's fault that a customer agrees to a quote that may be higher than another regardless of what the flat rate says.

    Quote:
    Should I be concerned about the valves being to tight? or am I just paranoid now?
    Well, it's a little late to ask this now, isn't it? You DEMANDED to have them placed to minimum spec but then ask later if you should be concerned? If it were my bike, then I would say yes. I don't like valves on ANY engine adjusted on the tight side. Like I said earlier, technicians have their own theories as to why they like valves adjusted certain ways and I don't like mine tight. A little bit of valvetrain noise doesn't dictate how I think an engine should run. Is your bike going to blow up now? I'm pretty darn sure you'll be fine until the next adjustment.

    That's my take based on observation...

  8. KitAkain
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    Did you get all that?

    That'll teach you to ask questions.

  9. hb1801
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    My suggestion that others might not agree with is to purchase a good compression gague and do a base line test and record the cylinder pressure before valve adjustment. After valves have been set do another compression test. Analize the before and after results with specs.

    hb1801

  10. yazonzdyohn2
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    The context of "minimum spec" could mean two different definitions....

    This is exactly what I was going to post! But then I thought whats the point?!

  11. Tuttle3
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    But then I thought whats the point?! ...

    Well, this is what goes through my reasoning:

    1. I need more information to get a clearer idea of the situation.
    2. Not saying the OP is a dealer basher, but I think there's usually another side of the story regarding issues with dealers. It may not be rampant here, but there's definitely people out in the world that pre-demonizes dealers before even giving them a clean slate. Even then, if they so much as slip up in good faith, the fingers go pointing rather profusely.
    3. I don't know the OP from Adam. Until he/she gives me enough evidence otherwise, I think the OP as well as other interested parties deserve to hear different point of views. I mean, this is why we're here, right?

  12. hb1801
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    Yeap.

    hb1801

  13. yazonzdyohn2
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    I was just bieng an a**!! And giving you a hard time. But having said all that perhaps just perhaps the thread starter only wanted his actual questions answered, because there was actual questions in there, and the rest was TMI, or venting a bit, and doesnt want every sentance analyzed and reported back too. But having said that! It really goes back to me just bieng an a**!!! And I really have no real problem with what you posted! I do see the need for Devil's advocate in life sometimes.....sometimes.......(maybe Im a little jealous that your from some place called Blue Grass, and Im stuck in a place called Bullhead!!!) hahaha...funny but true!

  14. carryallguns87
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    Your kinda correct on two counts at least! First off, I did have a slight "pre-concieved" perception when I first made the service appointment. Service person originally said "I believed the're shim and bucket valve adj." so the price may be higher depending on parts. (later corrected by the actual mechanic) Second, You did come off a little like an a** cause I was asking a sincere question. But I appreciate your opinion anyway, will you work on my bike??? LOL

  15. carryallguns87
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    Never mind that last question! I'm sure I couldn't afford your rates anyway!!! (considering your business costs incured by voice recording and/or lawyer review of repair cost estimate contracts, the NASA quality control tools, professional consultation and psychological advice) My dealers not so bad maybe? He shook my hand and smiled when he took my money anyways...

  16. Tucci641
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    They don't adjust the valves unless the engine is running rough or it starts hard is what a dealer tech friend tells me, regardless wether you paid fo it or not. The noise is a v"twin characteristic and you will need to deal with it. I've got 16k on my 1100, check the valves every 4k and only had to adjust em once and really didn't need to. If you want em checked every service do like many of us do and learn to do em yourself. I don't bother anymore unless like I said earlier its running rough or starts hard. Does the 1300 have dual carbs or injectors?

  17. KitAkain
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    They don't adjust the valves unless the engine is running...

    It's FI. My valves were either checked or checked/adjusted at 1K miles. I'm at 23k now and the bike starts and runs great and there's no more noise than there's ever been. I'm just gonna run it--my dealer/tech tells me the same thing--if it starts or runs rough then it's time to check them.

  18. poppj
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    I dropped bike for valve adjustment and throttle body synch...

    your valves should be fine...try a new dealership.

  19. poppj
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    It's FI. My valves were either checked or checked/adjusted...

    These valves can go 40,000 miles without being adjusted....but they should be checked from time to time....most all dealerships know this...but it's a huge money maker for them...they would love for all of us to come in every 8,000 miles and check valves and get a tune up.

  20. cbdklowal
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    They don't adjust the valves unless the engine is running...

    Usually a throttle body synchronization will clear up roughness. Unless the valves are WAY out of whack, and then you'd definitely hear them and want them adjusted. The valves are more noise, less feel.

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