Motorcycle Club » Star 1100 Classic & Custom

darkside? car tire?

22 posts from 8 voices
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  1. y1x
    #

    Hi, folks, I very happily ride a '97 Honda Valkyrie and in the wet PacNW I prefer to ride on a Goodyear Assurance Triple Tread car tire in the back. (lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html)

    Now, a buddy of mine with a VStar 1100 Classic would like to do the same. Trouble is, I'm having trouble finding anyone online who has done this and could recommend the right tire size for this bike.

    Can anyone help?

  2. Ravhite
    #

    You may have a tough time finding someone who has actually done it with an 1100. It appears that there is always plenty of discussion about it but I know of no one who's made the change. Maybe there is someone here who has and will give you the proper size.

  3. y1x
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    thanks for just not flaming me right off the board. I appreciate your open mind and hope someone else will be able to give me more insight.

  4. MigejCojode
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    It shouldn't be that hard. Match up the rim size to the tire size by taking the tire size off the old tire (I think you are looking at a 150/70 16) put in the proper new tube and get the new tire installed and balanced?

    Hmmm maybe I should do this to my 650 with snow tires......NOT

  5. y1x
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    Coyote: He says his stock tire is 170/80/15.

    I've been running a Goodyear Assurance Triple Tread 205/06/16 on my Valkyrie for about two months now very happily. but I don't know how to figure out what size tire he should use. I thought that I could just match those numbers up with a car tires numbers until I realized that my Valk stock motorcycle tire is a 180/70/16 and the 205/60/16 is recommended- so there must be some math involved in figuring out the proper size. Any ideas?

    and what were you implying about a tube? do you folks use tubed tires?

  6. wzdar6
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    how does the car tire handle in a curve? i would think it would be a "bear" to lean with the flat footprint. with the harder compound of a car tire i wouldn't be too confident leaning on it too hard. i guess about 100 psi would fix the wide footprint problem. just kidding!! i get a panic attack putting 50 psi in my boat trailer tires.

  7. y1x
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    vstar20- did you read the article that i linked to above? it tries to dissuade all the common myths of riding a motorcycle on a car tire. the author explains it far better than i could, but let me tell you that in all environments (save one) that i've put my Valk in, the car tire has performed better. Different for sure, but still better after a few hundred miles to become acquainted. the one case where its worse is maneuvering at extremely slow speed (5mph).

    in terms of turning, i scrape my pegs daily while commuting to work, ride in the rain 4 mos out of the year, have seen miles of gravel, and ride for fun in the twisty canyons in the coast range of the state. I realize it's absolutely a personal choice, but after riding several bikes over the years and being on my Valk for about a year before putting the car tire on, I can safely swear that I will never put anything other than a broad and flat car tire on the back (running at about 30psi so the sidewall can flex easier). The bike takes a bit more input throughout the turn, instead of just countersteering to initiate the turn, if that makes any sense.

  8. MigejCojode
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    Coyote: He says his stock tire is 170/80/15. I've been running a Goodyear Assurance Triple Tread 205/06/16 on my Valkyrie for about two months now very happily. but I don't know how to figure out what size tire he should use. I thought that I could just match those numbers up with a car tires numbers until I realized that my Valk stock motorcycle tire is a 180/70/16 and the 205/60/16 is recommended- so there must be some math involved in figuring out the proper size. Any ideas?and what were you implying about a tube? do you folks use tubed tires?

    Sorry I thought they were running 16 inch tires, I ride the 650 model. Stay with the tire size recommended on the bike, car tires are a little wider, depending on make/model, and there isn't much room between the drive shaft and tire. How you get away with the wider tire on your Valk I don't know, but I do know you have lots more room near the driveshaft. Regardless yes there is some math involved, stick with stock especially the 15 inch tire, 16's won't fit. As far as I know you guys are breaking ground with the star, once you get the stock size on you can vary your tire size based on experience with the next tire change. When you do vary remember to drop the aspect ratio to try to maintain near the same circumference on the tire. (thats the 80 in 170/80 15)

    If it is a spoked rim you have to run tubes (there are a few exceptions but not on the Vstar) If it has the cast aluminum rim, and some came with it, then you can, in theory, run a tubeless tire. You'll have to check with a reputable tire shop to see if the tire you want will handle tubes. Some have a large sharp bead (where the tire joins the rim) that destroy's tubes.

    The last real important thing to consider is whether the front tire is a radial or not. NEVER mix bias ply with radials. It will have and r in the number if it is. ie: 100/90R19.

    Good luck

    Oh and BTW I think I will stick with my motorcycle tire. Liked the article and got me thinking but, to use a sport biker term, my chicken strips are way too small to trust to something without tread on the side. May consider it if I go to a touring bike tho. Still have to wonder if I could get a few more months riding on snow tires.

  9. Puzhrot
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    Well I didn't read the complete article as it is quite lengthy, but I really think a gumbo mudder off a 4x4 is really what he needs. I have to question the rationality of a person that runs car tires on a motorcycle, not to mention on a dirt road at 70 mph. Maybe he just has large brass ones and doesn't mind the risk, I won't judge him too harshly. I will just stick to tires that are designed for my motorcycle and if I can't afford to change them when they are worn out, I will quit riding. I love riding my motorcycles and understand that there are calculated risks involved, but I have to admit to ATGATT (All The Gear All The Time) in a state that doesn't require a helmet after 21 years old. I am not going to take unnecessary chances. It would be real interesting to hear if the tire mfg would recommend this practice.

  10. y1x
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    of course, to each their own. I do want to clarify, though, that my main motivation isn't to save some cash by compromising my tires. a simple risk/value analysis will prove that to be a silly justification. I would never risk myself or that of my passenger just to save some $$. It is a nice side effect, though, but the real reason I haven't switched back to a motorcycle tire is because of how much more secure I feel on the bike (without any loss of handling- just different) and the continued success that I hear of other darkside riders.

  11. y1x
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    I found another awesome forum gl1800riders.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=17&sid=c715a815978150740b6522b830a15ee0- though it does focus more on the GL1800, there is plenty of good information there for anybody who's curious.

  12. Puzhrot
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    Exactly, to each his own is right. On a motorcycle tire the contact patch with the road increases as the motorcycle leans in the corner/curve. The car tire as you can see in the picture in the article, obviously doesn't. It is dramatically reduced, thus the "different" handling as you ride on the edge of the flat profile tire.

  13. y1x
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    if I really believed the contact patch were smaller while leaned over in a turn, I wouldn't be riding on it. I scrape my right and left peg every morning on my way to work while rolling on the throttle, so I feel I can safely say that my perception is that there is more traction available than before on my Avon. I'm trying to think of how I can objectively measure my contact patch while leaned over in a corner at speed... if you have an idea, please share.

    btw, while I appreciate the convenience and safety of "conventional wisdom", I also love to hear new solutions to old problems. I'm sincerely sorry if I offended anyone and I certainly hope no one would do anything without fully appreciating the risk.

  14. Ravhite
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    how does the car tire handle in a curve? i would think it would be a "bear" to lean with the flat footprint. with the harder compound of a car tire i wouldn't be too confident leaning on it too hard. i guess about 100 psi would fix the wide footprint problem. just kidding!! i get a panic attack putting 50 psi in my boat trailer tires.

    They actually track pretty good once you hit the break over point, used to be a familiar sight back in the day.

  15. Ravhite
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    if I really believed the contact patch were smaller while leaned over in a turn, I wouldn't be riding on it. I scrape my right and left peg every morning on my way to work while rolling on the throttle, so I feel I can safely say that my perception is that there is more traction available than before on my Avon. I'm trying to think of how I can objectively measure my contact patch while leaned over in a corner at speed... if you have an idea, please share.btw, while I appreciate the convenience and safety of "conventional wisdom", I also love to hear new solutions to old problems. I'm sincerely sorry if I offended anyone and I certainly hope no one would do anything without fully appreciating the risk.

    Your post have all been acceptable, no need to apologize.

  16. Ravhite
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    Just a bit of history here..........Riding "the dark side" is nothing new, it was done on a regular basis by many riders back in the 50's, 60's and early 70's. The practice diminished during the 80's but started making a come back in the mid to late 90's. It is a practice that is not for everyone and is a choice that should be made with considerable thought.

  17. y1x
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    Thanks, Ravhite, for the historical perspective. Do you suppose that WAY back in the day there wasn't much tech in moto tires nor such high-performance bikes so it was easy to justify putting a car tire on the back? Then, as bike performance and tire design improved more people happy with their moto tires?

    Why do you suppose people are revisiting the car tire? I mean, I know why I did, but it didn't even occur to me to do such a thing until I heard someone else suggest it.

  18. Ravhite
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    Thanks, Ravhite, for the historical perspective. Do you suppose that WAY back in the day there wasn't much tech in moto tires nor such high-performance bikes so it was easy to justify putting a car tire on the back? Then, as bike performance and tire design improved more people happy with their moto tires? Why do you suppose people are revisiting the car tire? I mean, I know why I did, but it didn't even occur to me to do such a thing until I heard someone else suggest it.

    Basically the technology wasn't there at that time. If you look back at the tires on the old Indians and HD's you will see a tire that looks identical to what you would see on a car of the same period. Superbike racing is what truly brought motorcycle tires into their own, ergo the change to true moto ties with specific compounds. What you are seeing now is automotive tires of compounds and designs that are getting into the realm of the moto tire. I think this has been enhanced by the racing divisions within the tire communities and the needs of such entities as Formula One and NASCAR.

  19. frok
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    I gotta admit riding the dark side would scare the living hell out of me...I would not be able to relax for a second cause i would be thinking about that car tyre underneath me that was designed for a car when i am riding a bike..so have to say bike tyres for me only..Thats what they were designed for so thats what i will use them for....To all you brave souls who venture down the dark side you are a hell of a lot braver than me........

  20. MigejCojode
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    I gotta admit riding the dark side would scare the living hell out of me...I would not be able to relax for a second cause i would be thinking about that car tyre underneath me that was designed for a car when i am riding a bike..so have to say bike tyres for me only..Thats what they were designed for so thats what i will use them for....To all you brave souls who venture down the dark side you are a hell of a lot braver than me........
    They have their place on a motorcycle. From what I hear and what has been said here you have to change your riding style. The right car tire, however, can give you more stability in adverse riding conditions like wet roads and gravel. When I get back to the prairies next year I may consider it, definitely will consider it when I get a heavier bike.

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